BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Suspension of Standing and Sessional Orders: Order of Business
Ms LEE RHIANNON [11.08 a.m.]: I move:
That standing and sessional orders be suspended to allow a motion to be
moved forthwith that Private Member's Business item No. 105 outside the
Order of Precedence relating to an order for papers regarding the
extension of the M4 East motorway be called on forthwith.
This is a matter of considerable urgency. Last year on a number of
occasions Minister Eric Roozendaal committed to releasing a discussion
paper on the M4 East to enable thorough public debate on the proposal.
He has failed to release the report. Therefore it is a matter of urgency
that the House consider this matter today. It is a matter of urgency
because a discussion paper was first publicly announced in 2006. It is a
matter of urgency because the Minister, in response to a question on
this matter on 19 June last year, committed to a whole-of-government
approach and said that the discussion paper would assist in an informed
public debate on future transport options for Sydney. A
whole-of-government approach cannot proceed unless the discussion paper
is released for public consideration and the merits of the project can
be assessed across departments.
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The matter must be dealt with today because the public is yet to see
the discussion paper, even though the Minister has used its supposed
existence to shut down debate in this matter in both this House and
during estimates hearings. I referred earlier to the response he gave on
19 June. We could not gain more information because he said the
discussion paper would be produced by the end of the year. Similarly,
when my colleague Dr John Kaye followed this matter up during the
estimates hearings with the Minister on 26 October, the debate was shut
down because the Minister, time and time again, gave an assurance that
the discussion paper would be released. Every day that goes by without
the report being released allows the Government to conduct the debate on
its terms, and it is most definitely doing that through the media. On 2
March, about a week ago, we again saw in the paper that the New South
Wales Government had approached the Federal Government for billions of
dollars to assist with a number of infrastructure projects, this being
one of them.
The report is urgently needed so that the public can have an informed
debate on this issue. We know that there are many question marks about
over the project, and they come from the original Mason Wilson Twiney
traffic study into the M4 East extension, which predicted that peak-hour
traffic would increase by 40 per cent at the exit points, and a final
draft environmental impact statement, which predicted that the M4 East
would increase traffic congestion, air pollution and total traffic time
from Western Sydney to Broadway. That information is on the record and
again it underlines why this matter is one of urgency.
There are question marks over the project from other official channels.
We have been told that there will be a discussion paper, but it has not
been forthcoming. That is no way to conduct the affairs of the
Government and no way to deal with the transport crisis that is gripping
Sydney. It is getting very close to the Minister misleading the House
because he has given a public commitment twice—once in the House and
once during estimates hearing—that this discussion paper would be
provided, but it has not materialised. Clearly he has misled the House.
It is pleasing that the Minister has now turned up for this discussion.
The Government, considering its troubles, would be wise to support the
motion. Let us get this through quickly so that the paper can be
released and we can get on to the other business of the House, so the
Government can be seen, at least on this matter, to have honoured its
clear commitment. This is a matter of urgency and I urge members to
support the motion
.
The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ [11.12 a.m.]: I oppose the motion, and I think the
honourable member has just pointed out exactly why: we want to get on
with the business of the House, and we have an order of in which we do
this. The honourable member has already moved a motion about
International Women's Day. The next item to be discussed is my motion
dealing with maternity leave. The motion sought to be moved is not
urgent. These proposals are always put out for public consultation well
before Government makes any decision. Papers will be released—and do
not laugh, they always are. I remember when the Cross City Tunnel was
proposed I attended a huge number—
Ms Lee Rhiannon: That's a home goal.
The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ: No, it is not a home goal. In fact I attended
public meeting after public meeting, week after week after week—only
about statistics, nothing about infrastructure. All they were interested
in were statistics, which we have not heard a word about since. There
were interminable public discussions and, quite frankly, the same
process will apply to any infrastructure information releases issued by
the Government.
Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE [11.13 a.m.]: I do not believe the matter
is urgent, but I am a bit confused by the member's speech. She
continually used the word "report". It is not a report, it is a
discussion paper, and discussion papers are usually released by the
Government or by our committees when it is ready to release finalised
discussion papers. In other words, the timetable is always in the hands
of the person, the department or, in this case, the Government that has
produced it. It may be that the discussion paper needs redrafting
because the Government now has a more sympathetic Federal Government,
and that may involve financial aspects of the project as well.
The Hon. DUNCAN GAY (Deputy Leader of the Opposition) [11.14 a.m.]: The
matter certainly is urgent because of its ramifications on the M4 East,
the Iron Cove Bridge and Victoria Road, and ultimately the community. A
project is under development for the Iron Cove Bridge, which will depend
on what happens to the M4 East. We have a Minister who said there would
be a discussion paper. The House must remember that this is a project
that has been on again, off again, on again, off again, just through the
term of this Government. In fact, a former Premier sold the land that
was earmarked for the M4 East, yet the project is coming back again. I
frankly do not know which city Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile lives in when
he says this matter is not important. The fact that this is not urgent
and this is not important—
Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile: You've verballed me; I never said that.
The Hon. Greg Donnelly: Hansard will show that you have verballed him.
The Hon. Michael Veitch: Withdraw.
The Hon. DUNCAN GAY: I will not withdraw. This is a matter of the
utmost importance and I have heard Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile speak
about the people who have to travel along Victoria Road. The effects of
the M4 East on Victoria Road will be quite dramatic. The Minister
promised a discussion paper that we have not seen and the Premier's
Department, through David Richmond, announced a gateway project. I do
not know where the two cross over. That was a $7 billion project, which
included tunnels to Port Botany and a potential continuation of the M4
East. Members of the House, not to mention people out in the suburbs who
are going to be affected, are not sure who is controlling the roads in
New South Wales. It is of utmost urgency that the discussion paper be
acquired so that the people of Sydney have some idea of what they might
face. The Opposition firmly supports the call from the Greens for the
discussion paper. I am disappointed that Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile, on
behalf of the people of New South Wales, does not see any urgency in
this matter, and once, again blithely supports the Government.
The Hon. MICHAEL VEITCH [11.17 a.m.]: The matter is not urgent. I am
quite excited by the fact that yesterday I got an item into the order of
precedence. I am told that that is actually quite an achievement.
The Hon. Michael Gallacher: You're a very excitable boy.
The Hon. MICHAEL VEITCH: I am. We have a list of items and we follow a
process to get those items into the order of precedence. This is just
another Greens stunt to jump the queue and get ahead of everyone else.
Paid maternity leave, which the Hon. Lynda Voltz has on the Business
Paper, is an extremely important issue. There has been talk about a
discussion paper. My experience of discussion papers is that they are
released in due course: they are developed and they are released. This
matter is not urgent.
Dr JOHN KAYE [11.18 a.m.]: The previous speaker said that a discussion
paper will be released in due course and that is precisely why the
matter is urgent. Time and time again critical information about
infrastructure projects is released in due course, but "in due course"
is nothing but a cover for the fact that it is released too late for
critical analysis.
The Hon. Eric Roozendaal: Like what?
Dr JOHN KAYE: Like absolutely every discussion paper.
The Hon. Eric Roozendaal: Like what?
Dr JOHN KAYE: Let us go back to the M2, the Eastern Distributor, the
Cross City Tunnel and the Cross Harbour tunnel. I am pleased to see that
the Minister has entered the debate, because he will recall that in
budget estimates on 26 October 2007, when I raised with him the need for
cost-benefit analysis of the M4 East, he made an undertaking to release
a discussion paper that was being prepared.
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What concerns the Greens—and what ought to concern every member of
the House—is that while we are debating this issue, plans for pushing
ahead with the M4 East are proceeding. If we do not act soon and have a
proper and informed debate about the M4 East, yet another road will be
built through Sydney that will have huge implications for the rest of
the transport network—not only for roads but also for public
transport. We must begin debate on this urgent issue now. The M4 East is
one of the Government's largest projects. During budget estimates the
Minister said that the project potentially was larger than the Sydney
Harbour Bridge. Imagine embarking on building something like the Sydney
Harbour Bridge and keeping discussion documents secret! It is urgent
that this matter be opened up to public debate. It is impossible to
understand why the Government insists on keeping the document secret,
unless something is afoot. This motion is urgent and I ask all members
to support it.
The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL (Minister for Roads, and Minister for
Commerce) [11.21 a.m.]: One would have thought that alarm bells would
have been ringing as the Deputy Leader of the Opposition and Ms Lee
Rhiannon are working in cohort.
The Hon. Melinda Pavey: Trying to protect public safety.
The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: The Hon. Melinda Pavey's chance to become
leader is coming. She should sit quietly in the Chamber and wait. We
know that she is doing the numbers. She should just sit back and wait.
The Deputy Leader of the Opposition has had a bad week; she should not
try to save him. He has had a bad week, so she should leave him alone.
The alarm bells are ringing. Let us consider the issue that has been
raised. Ms Lee Rhiannon said that the motion was urgent because the
discussion paper that was being developed should be released. I agree
that a discussion paper is being developed for a project that is larger
than the Sydney Harbour Bridge. That project will have massive benefits
for the State, for public transport users and for the community. That is
precisely why—
Ms Lee Rhiannon: Point of order: I suggest that you draw the attention
of the Minister to the fact that we are debating an urgent motion. The
Minister should state why this motion is not urgent rather than try to
sell a project.
The PRESIDENT: Order! I uphold the point of order and ask the Minister
to address the matter of urgency.
The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: You can talk—the king of smear, the man who
smeared everybody else in this House!
The Hon. Duncan Gay: Point of order: I ask you to draw the Minister
back to the urgent motion and stop him from denigrating other members in
this House.
The PRESIDENT: Order! I understand the point of order.
The Hon. Duncan Gay: He has spat across this House too often.
The PRESIDENT: Order! The Deputy Leader of the Opposition will resume
his seat.
The Hon. Duncan Gay: He is the king of smear; the most crooked member
in the House.
The PRESIDENT: Order! I call the Hon. Duncan Gay to order for the first
time. The Minister has the call.
The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: The Government is committed to releasing a
discussion paper on the M4 East, which comes under the responsibility of
Professor David Richmond, the Coordinator General. The motion moved by
Ms Lee Rhiannon is not urgent. The project has been well and truly
canvassed in the media. The Government is committed to releasing the
discussion paper to stimulate debate, comment and contribution from the
community on a project that will deliver substantial benefits to this
State.
The Hon. Duncan Gay: When will it be released?
The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: It will be released in the near future. It is
nonsense to suggest that the matter is urgent. The discussion paper will
be out in the community and there will be plenty of time for
consultation. Look at the track record of Ms Lee Rhiannon, the mover of
this motion. She opposes every infrastructure project.
The Hon. Duncan Gay: Point of order: The Minister is again denigrating
members in this House rather than addressing the matter of urgency.
The PRESIDENT: Order! I again ask the Minister to address the motion
before the chair.
The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: We are talking about a multibillion-dollar
piece of infrastructure that will be built to deal with the congestion
and freight challenges facing Sydney that will be good for motorists and
the economy. We will release the discussion paper to the public when it
is appropriately prepared and ready so that the public can be fully
informed. We will seek extensive community consultation and public
comment on the plan—a transparent process. It is difficult to
establish what the Greens are seeking to achieve by moving the motion.
It is nonsense to suggest that the Government will sneak out something
on a Thursday afternoon or build the M4 East on a Friday. Plans will be
released, people will be consulted, and there will be vigorous debate. I
encourage vigorous debate on this matter because it is important to the
people of Sydney and to the people of the State, and it is appropriate
for debate to take place in the public realm. All honourable members
should know about and be aware of the extensive environmental planning
and consultative requirements that must be met under the laws of New
South Wales. The Greens know that but they do not really care because
they hate infrastructure and progress. That is what this is all about.
[Interruption]
The Greens have a consistent record for not supporting one
infrastructure project in the State. Dr John Kaye would struggle to name
an infrastructure project that he has supported. The Greens do not know
what they are talking about. All Greens members oppose infrastructure.
The motion is not urgent.
Question—That the motion be agreed to—put.
The House divided.
Ayes, 19
Mr Ajaka
Mr Clarke
Mr Cohen
Ms Cusack
Ms Ficarra
Mr Gallacher
Miss Gardiner
Mr Gay
Ms Hale
Dr Kaye
Mr Khan
Mr Lynn
Mr Mason-Cox
Reverend Dr Moyes
Ms Parker
Mrs Pavey
Ms Rhiannon
Tellers,
Mr Colless
Mr Harwin
Noes, 20
Mr Brown
Mr Catanzariti
Mr Costa
Mr Della Bosca
Ms Griffin
Mr Hatzistergos
Mr Kelly
Mr Macdonald
Reverend Nile
Mr Obeid
Ms Robertson
Mr Roozendaal
Ms Sharpe
Mr Smith
Mr Tsang
Ms Voltz
Mr West
Ms Westwood
Tellers,
Mr Donnelly
Mr Veitch
Pair
Mr Pearce
Ms Fazio
Question resolved in the negative.
Motion negatived.