Another put off of legitimate public concern - 6 March 2008

Business - Business of the House, Division, Suspension of Orders, Motion

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Page: 5954

Suspension of Standing and Sessional Orders: Order of Business

Ms LEE RHIANNON [11.08 a.m.]: I move:

That standing and sessional orders be suspended to allow a motion to be moved forthwith that Private Member's Business item No. 105 outside the Order of Precedence, relating to an order for papers regarding the extension of the M4 East Motorway, be called on forthwith.

This is a matter of considerable urgency. Last year on a number of occasions Minister Eric Roozendaal committed to releasing a discussion paper on the M4 East to enable thorough public debate on the proposal. He has failed to release the report. Therefore it is a matter of urgency that the House consider this matter today. It is a matter of urgency because a discussion paper was first publicly announced in 2006. It is a matter of urgency because the Minister, in response to a question on this matter on 19 June last year, committed to a whole-of-government approach and said that the discussion paper would assist in an informed public debate on future transport options for Sydney. A whole-of-government approach cannot proceed unless the discussion paper is released for public consideration and the merits of the project can be assessed across departments.

The matter must be dealt with today because the public is yet to see the discussion paper, even though the Minister has used its supposed existence to shut down debate in this matter in both this House and during estimates hearings. I referred earlier to the response he gave on 19 June. We could not gain more information because he said the discussion paper would be produced by the end of the year. Similarly, when my colleague Dr John Kaye followed this matter up during the estimates hearings with the Minister on 26 October, the debate was shut down because the Minister, time and time again, gave an assurance that the discussion paper would be released. Every day that goes by without the report being released allows the Government to conduct the debate on its terms, and it is most definitely doing that through the media. On 2 March, about a week ago, we again saw in the paper that the New South Wales Government had approached the Federal Government for billions of dollars to assist with a number of infrastructure projects, this being one of them.

The report is urgently needed so that the public can have an informed debate on this issue. We know that there are many question marks over the project, and they come from the original Mason Wilson Twiney traffic study into the M4 East extension, which predicted that peak-hour traffic would increase by 40 per cent at the exit points, and a final draft environmental impact statement, which predicted that the M4 East would increase traffic congestion, air pollution and total traffic time from Western Sydney to Broadway. That information is on the record and again it underlines why this matter is one of urgency.

There are question marks over the project from other official channels. We have been told that there will be a discussion paper, but it has not been forthcoming. That is no way to conduct the affairs of the Government and no way to deal with the transport crisis that is gripping Sydney. It is getting very close to the Minister misleading the House because he has given a public commitment twice—once in the House and once during estimates hearings—that this discussion paper would be provided, but it has not materialised. Clearly he has misled the House. It is pleasing that the Minister has now turned up for this discussion. The Government, considering its troubles, would be wise to support the motion. Let us get this through quickly so that the paper can be released and we can get on to the other business of the House, so the Government can be seen, at least on this matter, to have honoured its clear commitment. This is a matter of urgency and I urge members to support the motion.

The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ [11.12 a.m.]: I oppose the motion, and I think the honourable member has just pointed out exactly why: we want to get on with the business of the House, and we have an order in which we do this. The honourable member has already moved a motion about International Women's Day. The next item to be discussed is my motion dealing with maternity leave. The motion sought to be moved is not urgent. These proposals are always put out for public consultation well before the Government makes any decision. Papers will be released—and do not laugh, they always are. I remember when the Cross City Tunnel was proposed I attended a huge number—

Ms Lee Rhiannon: That's a home goal.

The Hon. LYNDA VOLTZ: No, it is not a home goal. In fact I attended public meeting after public meeting, week after week after week—only about statistics, nothing about infrastructure. All they were interested in were statistics, which we have not heard a word about since. There were interminable public discussions and, quite frankly, the same process will apply to any infrastructure information releases issued by the Government.

Reverend the Hon. FRED NILE [11.13 a.m.]: I do not believe the matter is urgent, but I am a bit confused by the member's speech. She continually used the word "report". It is not a report, it is a discussion paper, and discussion papers are usually released by the Government or by our committees when it is ready to release finalised discussion papers. In other words, the timetable is always in the hands of the person, the department or, in this case, the Government that has produced it. It may be that the discussion paper needs redrafting because the Government now has a more sympathetic Federal Government, and that may involve financial aspects of the project as well.

The Hon. DUNCAN GAY (Deputy Leader of the Opposition) [11.14 a.m.]: The matter certainly is urgent because of its ramifications on the M4 East, the Iron Cove Bridge and Victoria Road, and ultimately the community. A project is under development for the Iron Cove Bridge, which will depend on what happens to the M4 East. We have a Minister who said there would be a discussion paper. The House must remember that this is a project that has been on again, off again, on again, off again, just through the term of this Government. In fact, a former Premier sold the land that was earmarked for the M4 East, yet the project is coming back again. I frankly do not know which city Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile lives in when he says this matter is not important. The fact that this is not urgent and this is not important—

Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile: You've verballed me; I never said that.

The Hon. Greg Donnelly: Hansard will show that you have verballed him.

The Hon. Michael Veitch: Withdraw!

The Hon. DUNCAN GAY: I will not withdraw. This is a matter of the utmost importance and I have heard Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile speak about the people who have to travel along Victoria Road. The effects of the M4 East on Victoria Road will be quite dramatic. The Minister promised a discussion paper that we have not seen and the Premier's Department, through David Richmond, announced a gateway project. I do not know where the two cross over. That was a $7 billion project, which included tunnels to Port Botany and a potential continuation of the M4 East. Members of the House, not to mention people out in the suburbs who are going to be affected, are not sure who is controlling the roads in New South Wales. It is of utmost urgency that the discussion paper be acquired so that the people of Sydney have some idea of what they might face. The Opposition firmly supports the call from the Greens for the discussion paper. I am disappointed that Reverend the Hon. Fred Nile, on behalf of the people of New South Wales, does not see any urgency in this matter, and once, again blithely supports the Government.

The Hon. MICHAEL VEITCH [11.17 a.m.]: The matter is not urgent. I am quite excited by the fact that yesterday I got an item into the order of precedence. I am told that that is actually quite an achievement.

The Hon. Michael Gallacher: You're a very excitable boy.

The Hon. MICHAEL VEITCH: I am. We have a list of items and we follow a process to get those items into the order of precedence. This is just another Greens stunt to jump the queue and get ahead of everyone else. Paid maternity leave, which the Hon. Lynda Voltz has on the business paper, is an extremely important issue. There has been talk about a discussion paper. My experience of discussion papers is that they are released in due course: they are developed and they are released. This matter is not urgent.

Dr JOHN KAYE [11.18 a.m.]: The previous speaker said that a discussion paper will be released in due course and that is precisely why the matter is urgent. Time and time again critical information about infrastructure projects is released in due course, but "in due course" is nothing but a cover for the fact that it is released too late for critical analysis.

The Hon. Eric Roozendaal: Like what?

Dr JOHN KAYE: Like absolutely every discussion paper.

The Hon. Eric Roozendaal: Like what?

Dr JOHN KAYE: Let us go back to the M2, the Eastern Distributor, the Cross City Tunnel and the Cross Harbour tunnel. I am pleased to see that the Minister has entered the debate, because he will recall that in budget estimates on 26 October 2007, when I raised with him the need for cost-benefit analysis of the M4 East, he made an undertaking to release a discussion paper that was being prepared. What concerns the Greens—and what ought to concern every member of the House—is that while we are debating this issue, plans for pushing ahead with the M4 East are proceeding. If we do not act soon and have a proper and informed debate about the M4 East, yet another road will be built through Sydney that will have huge implications for the rest of the transport network—not only for roads but also for public transport. We must begin debate on this urgent issue now. The M4 East is one of the Government's largest projects. During budget estimates the Minister said that the project potentially was larger than the Sydney Harbour Bridge. Imagine embarking on building something like the Sydney Harbour Bridge and keeping discussion documents secret! It is urgent that this matter be opened up to public debate. It is impossible to understand why the Government insists on keeping the document secret, unless something is afoot. This motion is urgent and I ask all members to support it.

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL (Minister for Roads, and Minister for Commerce) [11.21 a.m.]: One would have thought that alarm bells would have been ringing as the Deputy Leader of the Opposition and Ms Lee Rhiannon are working in cohort.

The Hon. Melinda Pavey: Trying to protect public safety.

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: The Hon. Melinda Pavey's chance to become leader is coming. She should sit quietly in the Chamber and wait. We know that she is doing the numbers. She should just sit back and wait. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition has had a bad week; she should not try to save him. He has had a bad week, so she should leave him alone. The alarm bells are ringing. Let us consider the issue that has been raised. Ms Lee Rhiannon said that the motion was urgent because the discussion paper that was being developed should be released. I agree that a discussion paper is being developed for a project that is larger than the Sydney Harbour Bridge. That project will have massive benefits for the State, for public transport users, and for the community. That is precisely why—

Ms Lee Rhiannon: Point of order: I suggest that you draw the attention of the Minister to the fact that we are debating an urgent motion. The Minister should state why this motion is not urgent rather than try to sell a project.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I uphold the point of order and ask the Minister to address the matter of urgency.
The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: You can talk—the king of smear, the man who smeared everybody else in this House!

The Hon. Duncan Gay: Point of order: I ask you to draw the Minister back to the urgent motion and stop him from denigrating other members in this House.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I understand the point of order.

The Hon. Duncan Gay: He has spat across this House too often.

The PRESIDENT: Order! The Deputy Leader of the Opposition will resume his seat.

The Hon. Duncan Gay: He is the king of smear; the most crooked member in the House.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I call the Hon. Duncan Gay to order for the first time. The Minister has the call.

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: The Government is committed to releasing a discussion paper on the M4 East, which comes under the responsibility of Professor David Richmond, the Coordinator General. The motion moved by Ms Lee Rhiannon is not urgent. The project has been well and truly canvassed in the media. The Government is committed to releasing the discussion paper to stimulate debate, comment and contribution from the community on a project that will deliver substantial benefits to this State.

The Hon. Duncan Gay: When will it be released?

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: It will be released in the near future. It is nonsense to suggest that the matter is urgent. The discussion paper will be out in the community and there will be plenty of time for consultation. Look at the track record of Ms Lee Rhiannon, the mover of this motion. She opposes every infrastructure project.

The Hon. Duncan Gay: Point of order: The Minister is again denigrating members in this House rather than addressing the matter of urgency.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I again ask the Minister to address the motion before the chair.

The Hon. ERIC ROOZENDAAL: We are talking about a multibillion-dollar piece of infrastructure that will be built to deal with the congestion and freight challenges facing Sydney that will be good for motorists and the economy. We will release the discussion paper to the public when it is appropriately prepared and ready, so that the public can be fully informed. We will seek extensive community consultation and public comment on the plan—a transparent process. It is difficult to establish what the Greens are seeking to achieve by moving the motion.

It is nonsense to suggest that the Government will sneak out something on a Thursday afternoon or build the M4 East on a Friday. Plans will be released, people will be consulted, and there will be vigorous debate. I encourage vigorous debate on this matter because it is important to the people of Sydney and to the people of the State, and it is appropriate for debate to take place in the public realm. All honourable members should know about, and be aware of, the extensive environmental planning and consultative requirements that must be met under the laws of New South Wales. The Greens know that but they do not really care because they hate infrastructure and progress. That is what this is all about.

[Interruption]

The Greens have a consistent record for not supporting one infrastructure project in the State. Dr John Kaye would struggle to name an infrastructure project that he has supported. The Greens do not know what they are talking about. All Greens members oppose infrastructure. The motion is not urgent.

Question—That the motion be agreed to—put.

The House divided.

Ayes, 19

Mr Ajaka
Mr Clarke
Mr Cohen
Ms Cusack
Ms Ficarra
Mr Gallacher
Miss Gardiner
Mr Gay
Ms Hale
Dr Kaye
Mr Khan
Mr Lynn
Mr Mason-Cox
Reverend Dr Moyes
Ms Parker
Mrs Pavey
Ms Rhiannon

Tellers,
Mr Colless
Mr Harwin

Noes, 20

Mr Brown
Mr Catanzariti
Mr Costa
Mr Della Bosca
Ms Griffin
Mr Hatzistergos
Mr Kelly
Mr Macdonald
Reverend Nile
Mr Obeid
Ms Robertson
Mr Roozendaal
Ms Sharpe
Mr Smith
Mr Tsang
Ms Voltz
Mr West
Ms Westwood
Tellers,
Mr Donnelly
Mr Veitch

PairPair

Mr Pearce
Ms Fazio

Question resolved in the negative.

Motion negatived.